Now your "reasons" for being atheist are downright foolish! What you are claiming to be doing in the name of "research" is quite honestly not very good reasoning.
What you've said in this post is akin to me saying, "I don't believe in charities because those darn telemarketers keep calling my house at dinner time."
All you can argue with the point of people coming to your door (Christian or otherwise) is that you don't like what they are doing. It does not prove the existence of God.
You may want to revise your research project so your prof doesn't fail you on the account of flawed logic.
(By the way, I do believe it was you who told JD to be "intelligent" when he asked you a few questions and you didn't respond to them. Something about a Star Wars analogy...)
Once again, failing to see humor in a very simple idea.
I could post a whole diatribe about how I feel that preaching on the curbside invades public rights, or how coming on my property is a form of discrimination that is reflective of the colonization process. I could go into the history of British Colonial thinking, the Inquisition, the Catholic church and the witch hunts etc, but all of that is sooooo boring and redundant. I am assuming that most people who come on here are smart enough to disseminate the message from a simple sentence. Clearly, I was mistaken.
I have my own personal reasons for choosing to be atheist. I am not interested in a discussion of whether there is a God or not. In my world, I moved past that argument years ago. If I want to attribute the fact that Christians have no respect for private property and have no trouble coming to my door to preach to me as one of the reasons why I am atheist, so be it. If you would like, when I am done, I can repost my positions very academically, until then. Whatever.
By the way, I would encourage you to go back and read why I would not answer his questions. He cannot follow the logic of an argument. All of you guys seem to love the Star Wars metaphor. Maybe, you could all learn something. Joseph Campbell is a writer, following in the footsteps of Carl Jung. He wrote a book a called "A Hero with a Thousand Faces" which discusses the archetypal themes in literature appropriated from Greek mythology in Western Literature. Star Wars is discussed, as is the Bible. This was because, with a little research, you would learn that the Canonization of the Bible was done with controversy. If you are ever interested in reading something outside of the box, pick it up. And, for a more detailed look at how the Bible was constructed, there is the Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur.
You cannot argue with someone who does not know what the question is. Sorry.
Mike- So far, you have posted on my blog 3 comments that I have seen. Two of these have been critiquing my rhetorical structure, which I will give you. I am guilty of "dumbing shit down", no doubt about it. The other comment was actually about content, which is good.
So, I ask you this. Aside from my lack of "Socratic Methods" in presenting the material, what do you think about the practice of door to door evangelizing? Do you agree with it? Maybe you can tell me why Christians feel that they can knock on the door of strangers to spread the Gospel? Or perhaps you know why Jews do not come to my door to tell me that Christ is not the Messiah. Why do Muslims not come to convince me that Allah is the true prophet, or that in order to seek spiritual nirvana, I must consistently practice Buddhist meditation?Where do they get the right to knock on the door of total strangers?
In my opinion, anybody in their right mind would not willingly put themselves in that position. This is unethical and dangerous. Please, provide me with an argument that allows me to understand why this practice is acceptable and commonplace because I really do not understand.
"I am assuming that most people who come on here are smart enough to disseminate the message from a simple sentence. Clearly, I was mistaken."
Wow! So harsh. I thought I was smarter than that. My bad! I guess I didn't see your humor.......
No bigge.
Your qustion about door-to-door evangelism. I don't do it. Never have. Never will.
Why? Because I think the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ is best shared in a personal, one-on-one relationship with a friend, co-worker, spouse, etc. It is more organic when I know the person and they know I don't have an agenda to push on them. I simply offer the truth when I see the time is ripe.
That said, I think it is probably rare that people have ever experienced "doorway conversions". Doesn't mean it doesn't or cannot happen, but I've never heard of one.
I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, though. I enjoy the deep conversations with them (they claim beliefs that differ from orthodox Christianity) because of their flawed biblical exegesis (interpretation).
Why do you hate it that they come to your door? Simply tell them politely next time that you're not interested and that's that. If they have a problem with it, then close the door on them. But give them a chance to walk away gracefully.
On the flip side of your question, I cannot answer for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc as to why they do not proselytize. I just don't know. It seems to me that if someone thought (or knew) they had the truth (regarding any matter of life...could be a cure for a disease or something) that they would want to share it with others.
As to the Star Wars thing. Yah, I HATE Star Wars! Could never get into the sci-fi thing, so I don't use it as illustration to anything. Oh, and Battle Star Gallactica and Star Trek are included in that category. So I didn't get into that dialogue with you guys on JD's blog cuz it honestly didn't interest me.
Believe it or not, I enjoy these convo's with you. Keep the questions coming! I love 'em
Okay.... I am blunt. Trust me, I have to be. Also, I am truly sarcastic at times. Which translates poorly online for the most part.
I am glad that you disagree with it, you should. I have been very polite to the ones that have come to my door. However, I have had incidents where they still continue to talk. And, to me, it is the principle of the matter. If I want, I will find it. Do not push it on me.
The other religions do not do this. Period. I have asked my friends and such and they told me that it is not acceptable to any other religion. Christianity has a history established on conversion, and there is a tendency to look at non Christians that way. There is also a passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people to go in two's to spread the Gospel. Which I will pull later, as I do not have time, and have to go to work.
As for the Star Wars stuff. Joseph Campbell talks about the voyage of Luke Skywalker as being a recycled version of the Odyssey by Homer. There are also parallels to The Bible. Much of our mythology is extracted in literature, the Bible too. I have put many postings here and there talking about how common Biblical stories were introduced first in Greek and Roman mythology. That is why I refused to answer his question. He wanted to display how Christians helped save people from the Barbarians and Pagans, which is not wrong. But, the pagans had other roles too in the construction of the Bible.
Also, demonizing and making the Pagans "the enemy" was a very strategic political move and important piece of propaganda in establishing the Christian Empire. More later.
"I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, though. I enjoy the deep conversations with them (they claim beliefs that differ from orthodox Christianity) because of their flawed biblical exegesis (interpretation)."
You know what, once upon a time I may have been amused by it too. Now, though, my home is my haven. Free of the thousands of stresses that I experience outside. Too have religion pushed on me on my doorstep is disrespectful.
Actually, I worked with a Muslim man who spent 17 years as an Islamic missionary throughout Africa. It's probably not common in the U.S. because of the large number of gun-toting Christians who would view a Muslim as Satan himself.
I like how Mike claims he dislikes door to door proselytizing but then goes on to point out how he harasses his friends, family, and coworkers. Sorry, Mike, that's just as rude and intrusive (perhaps more so to the people who have to continue to see you day after day).
I understand you want your scorecard to count more "heathens converted" than "heathens going to hell". Understandably, pulling people from the depths of hell makes you feel good. That doesn't change the fact that it's rude and intrusive.
And, the fact that it is socially inappropriate, rude, insensitive, and downright disrespectful is the whole point of this post. Perhaps, us atheists need to band together and knock on their door uninvited and hand the The God Delusion to tell them how to save themselves before its too late. That would be interesting wouldn't it.... I would never do that. I have too much respect for my fellow human beings, sad to say.
Interesting, I have never heard of a Muslim doing that in North America.
Although you say that ironically, that is how the fundamentalists see the "agenda" of science. As a cell biologist, I can attest that the only "agenda" of science I am aware of is the drive to explain natural regularities by means of deduction and induction. It's sad when knowledge seems like an "agenda" to people.
As for my Muslim coworker, he was quite pleasant to work with. He never tried to convert me, but when we had philosophical discussions about our ethics, etc. (while on break, of course), we had more in common than you might think.
Almost universal to the human condition is the importance of family, community, and love. We tend to forget that when we have constantly to deal with the Fred Phelpses and Kirk Camerons of the world.
Yes... I recently was working with a woman who was Hindu. She was such a nice person, very typical of that Eastern openmindness that can characterize their type of spirituality. Anyways, we got talking, and when she found out I was atheist, it upset her for me. It is funny, I take no offense to her because it was legit. Nor, did she talk to me about any of this crap about God, she told me that I should go to the Krishna temple and just see. Her beliefs were so much more solid, she just felt that I needed an idea of God.
Yes, I also work with a high number of Muslim people. Never had a problem that way. They respect others beliefs. I have yet to be offended by one.
The Kirk Camerons and the Ray Comforts...... Most offensive people out there.
Now your "reasons" for being atheist are downright foolish! What you are claiming to be doing in the name of "research" is quite honestly not very good reasoning.
ReplyDeleteWhat you've said in this post is akin to me saying, "I don't believe in charities because those darn telemarketers keep calling my house at dinner time."
All you can argue with the point of people coming to your door (Christian or otherwise) is that you don't like what they are doing. It does not prove the existence of God.
You may want to revise your research project so your prof doesn't fail you on the account of flawed logic.
(By the way, I do believe it was you who told JD to be "intelligent" when he asked you a few questions and you didn't respond to them. Something about a Star Wars analogy...)
Once again, failing to see humor in a very simple idea.
ReplyDeleteI could post a whole diatribe about how I feel that preaching on the curbside invades public rights, or how coming on my property is a form of discrimination that is reflective of the colonization process. I could go into the history of British Colonial thinking, the Inquisition, the Catholic church and the witch hunts etc, but all of that is sooooo boring and redundant. I am assuming that most people who come on here are smart enough to disseminate the message from a simple sentence. Clearly, I was mistaken.
I have my own personal reasons for choosing to be atheist. I am not interested in a discussion of whether there is a God or not. In my world, I moved past that argument years ago. If I want to attribute the fact that Christians have no respect for private property and have no trouble coming to my door to preach to me as one of the reasons why I am atheist, so be it. If you would like, when I am done, I can repost my positions very academically, until then. Whatever.
By the way, I would encourage you to go back and read why I would not answer his questions. He cannot follow the logic of an argument. All of you guys seem to love the Star Wars metaphor. Maybe, you could all learn something. Joseph Campbell is a writer, following in the footsteps of Carl Jung. He wrote a book a called "A Hero with a Thousand Faces" which discusses the archetypal themes in literature appropriated from Greek mythology in Western Literature. Star Wars is discussed, as is the Bible. This was because, with a little research, you would learn that the Canonization of the Bible was done with controversy. If you are ever interested in reading something outside of the box, pick it up. And, for a more detailed look at how the Bible was constructed, there is the Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur.
You cannot argue with someone who does not know what the question is. Sorry.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMike- So far, you have posted on my blog 3 comments that I have seen. Two of these have been critiquing my rhetorical structure, which I will give you. I am guilty of "dumbing shit down", no doubt about it. The other comment was actually about content, which is good.
ReplyDeleteSo, I ask you this. Aside from my lack of "Socratic Methods" in presenting the material, what do you think about the practice of door to door evangelizing? Do you agree with it? Maybe you can tell me why Christians feel that they can knock on the door of strangers to spread the Gospel? Or perhaps you know why Jews do not come to my door to tell me that Christ is not the Messiah. Why do Muslims not come to convince me that Allah is the true prophet, or that in order to seek spiritual nirvana, I must consistently practice Buddhist meditation?Where do they get the right to knock on the door of total strangers?
In my opinion, anybody in their right mind would not willingly put themselves in that position. This is unethical and dangerous. Please, provide me with an argument that allows me to understand why this practice is acceptable and commonplace because I really do not understand.
"I am assuming that most people who come on here are smart enough to disseminate the message from a simple sentence. Clearly, I was mistaken."
ReplyDeleteWow! So harsh. I thought I was smarter than that. My bad! I guess I didn't see your humor.......
No bigge.
Your qustion about door-to-door evangelism. I don't do it. Never have. Never will.
Why? Because I think the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ is best shared in a personal, one-on-one relationship with a friend, co-worker, spouse, etc. It is more organic when I know the person and they know I don't have an agenda to push on them. I simply offer the truth when I see the time is ripe.
That said, I think it is probably rare that people have ever experienced "doorway conversions". Doesn't mean it doesn't or cannot happen, but I've never heard of one.
I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, though. I enjoy the deep conversations with them (they claim beliefs that differ from orthodox Christianity) because of their flawed biblical exegesis (interpretation).
Why do you hate it that they come to your door? Simply tell them politely next time that you're not interested and that's that. If they have a problem with it, then close the door on them. But give them a chance to walk away gracefully.
On the flip side of your question, I cannot answer for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc as to why they do not proselytize. I just don't know. It seems to me that if someone thought (or knew) they had the truth (regarding any matter of life...could be a cure for a disease or something) that they would want to share it with others.
As to the Star Wars thing. Yah, I HATE Star Wars! Could never get into the sci-fi thing, so I don't use it as illustration to anything. Oh, and Battle Star Gallactica and Star Trek are included in that category. So I didn't get into that dialogue with you guys on JD's blog cuz it honestly didn't interest me.
Believe it or not, I enjoy these convo's with you. Keep the questions coming! I love 'em
Okay.... I am blunt. Trust me, I have to be. Also, I am truly sarcastic at times. Which translates poorly online for the most part.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that you disagree with it, you should. I have been very polite to the ones that have come to my door. However, I have had incidents where they still continue to talk. And, to me, it is the principle of the matter. If I want, I will find it. Do not push it on me.
The other religions do not do this. Period. I have asked my friends and such and they told me that it is not acceptable to any other religion. Christianity has a history established on conversion, and there is a tendency to look at non Christians that way. There is also a passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people to go in two's to spread the Gospel. Which I will pull later, as I do not have time, and have to go to work.
As for the Star Wars stuff. Joseph Campbell talks about the voyage of Luke Skywalker as being a recycled version of the Odyssey by Homer. There are also parallels to The Bible. Much of our mythology is extracted in literature, the Bible too. I have put many postings here and there talking about how common Biblical stories were introduced first in Greek and Roman mythology. That is why I refused to answer his question. He wanted to display how Christians helped save people from the Barbarians and Pagans, which is not wrong. But, the pagans had other roles too in the construction of the Bible.
Also, demonizing and making the Pagans "the enemy" was a very strategic political move and important piece of propaganda in establishing the Christian Empire. More later.
ReplyDelete"I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, though. I enjoy the deep conversations with them (they claim beliefs that differ from orthodox Christianity) because of their flawed biblical exegesis (interpretation)."
ReplyDeleteHow do you know it's flawed?
You know what, once upon a time I may have been amused by it too. Now, though, my home is my haven. Free of the thousands of stresses that I experience outside. Too have religion pushed on me on my doorstep is disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteActually, I worked with a Muslim man who spent 17 years as an Islamic missionary throughout Africa. It's probably not common in the U.S. because of the large number of gun-toting Christians who would view a Muslim as Satan himself.
ReplyDeleteI like how Mike claims he dislikes door to door proselytizing but then goes on to point out how he harasses his friends, family, and coworkers. Sorry, Mike, that's just as rude and intrusive (perhaps more so to the people who have to continue to see you day after day).
I understand you want your scorecard to count more "heathens converted" than "heathens going to hell". Understandably, pulling people from the depths of hell makes you feel good. That doesn't change the fact that it's rude and intrusive.
And, the fact that it is socially inappropriate, rude, insensitive, and downright disrespectful is the whole point of this post. Perhaps, us atheists need to band together and knock on their door uninvited and hand the The God Delusion to tell them how to save themselves before its too late. That would be interesting wouldn't it.... I would never do that. I have too much respect for my fellow human beings, sad to say.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, I have never heard of a Muslim doing that in North America.
Although you say that ironically, that is how the fundamentalists see the "agenda" of science. As a cell biologist, I can attest that the only "agenda" of science I am aware of is the drive to explain natural regularities by means of deduction and induction. It's sad when knowledge seems like an "agenda" to people.
ReplyDeleteAs for my Muslim coworker, he was quite pleasant to work with. He never tried to convert me, but when we had philosophical discussions about our ethics, etc. (while on break, of course), we had more in common than you might think.
Almost universal to the human condition is the importance of family, community, and love. We tend to forget that when we have constantly to deal with the Fred Phelpses and Kirk Camerons of the world.
Yes... I recently was working with a woman who was Hindu. She was such a nice person, very typical of that Eastern openmindness that can characterize their type of spirituality. Anyways, we got talking, and when she found out I was atheist, it upset her for me. It is funny, I take no offense to her because it was legit. Nor, did she talk to me about any of this crap about God, she told me that I should go to the Krishna temple and just see. Her beliefs were so much more solid, she just felt that I needed an idea of God.
ReplyDeleteYes, I also work with a high number of Muslim people. Never had a problem that way. They respect others beliefs. I have yet to be offended by one.
The Kirk Camerons and the Ray Comforts...... Most offensive people out there.